Well that sux.

Sigh. It just had to happen now, doesn't it?
Well, if there's anything we can do to help, let us know.

That is really bad news...i rather enjoyed listening to Pandora...it will be a great loss to me...

:'(

Work is going to be a lot more boring now.....

Extremely disappointing indeed. Well, thanks for being with us for a while - we liked Pandora a lot!
Canuck

That's too bad. I really enjoyed listening to Pandora and so I've told many people about it - they're all hooked... but they are all also from within Canada.

Anyway. Good luck on resolving this - however you might do it. There really isn't an alternative to Pandora... there just isn't anything like it.

This is such a shame. I discovered so much from Pandora and I've baught more music because of it. Thanks for everything while it lasted.

I've never seen anything like Pandora before now, very sad to see it go. Please let me know if there is anything that can be done from this end to bring you guys back.

Is there anything a Canuk can do ? Is it one of our Governments regulations ?
I can't quite figure what's going on.
Will you guys be trying to get us back. Can we help ?

What!
I honestly shed a tear when I read the email.
Im so disappointed that Canada wont be able to use Pandora. Fix this!!!!

This sucks hardcore.
Why don't you all just move to Canada and stream from here so that you don't have problems with the rediculous laws in your country? We're pretty leneient about that kind of thing. I'll even let you use my living room for a while until you find the digs to move in to.
Seriously guys, think about it: State sponsored health care, no George Bush, Molson's and Hockey, hell I'd even be willing to do a bit of cooking if that sounds enticing to you.

Seriously sorry to see you go... thanks for the great music.

Becks

Well....This really sucks...Pandora is by far the best music soruce out there. I Use ut 24/7.. now what...if i could pay to use it i will lol.

I look forward to the eMail, however long from now, that will notify me of Pandora streaming into Canada again. If there's anything we, as Canadian citizens, can do to help, send our accounts eMails with info.

i'll ask my questions again... as i did in the comments of a previous post...

i agree with Paul as for tim's quote. all of this is really weird...

pandora is just free music listening like on some others websites and you can buy the music directly with amazon or i-tunes.

how ALL countries except usa and canada could agree together against pandora while they let i-tunes for example do their own business all over the world??

maybe it's just a money stuff as more than often... maybe a country/record compagny (which one? european one?) want to do the same thing as pandora for its self-benefit...

don't get me wrong here... my words are not against pandora... just want to understand... we're talking about freedom on the net here, no?

a last thing : sorry for my english, it's not my language... can do better in french ;)

Craptastic! Pandora is my favorite...I have found so many more new artists that I like through Pandora.

Well that's not good news. I suppose though, that I'd be more upset had I purchased a squeeze-box unit, wouldn't I?

Anyways... quite disappointing. I'd be curious, now that you're well aware of the load that out-of-country listeners were placing on your system, how that will affect your bottom line as far as advertisers, etc... are concerned. Best of luck in the future.

This sucks and BLOWS!!!! If theres anything I can do to help get pandorra back let me know please!!!!!!!!!

This website is bound to become terribly unsuccessful with the support of only 1 country. Considering most of your usage likely came from outside of the US. My account will be deleted for certain as there is no point in maintaining something I have no access to.

Well... I don't know what to say... Real sad to see this happen... The fact that pandora made me start listening to legit music, and not pirated tracks...

Well i guess i will need to revert to the old ways i had, so really i dont know how this will help the record companies make more money, since the only CD's ive ever bought were because of pandora... Well you can be shure ill be here everyday until its back up for us canadians.

Keep up the work Pandora, please don't stop fighting now.

-= XGM =-

Man this sucks!!! I have found almost twenty bands through pandora that I absolutely love i bought their cd's to (i dont like napster or limewire because it steals artists hard earned well deserved cash) I'd be willing to pay to get pandora back! Pandora has been wonderful at school, home ect. if there is anything i can do let me know there is no replacement or even significant other to Pandora its one of a kind! We Canucks love it!!!

If nothing else, is there a chance of a Canadian equivalent of pandora?

Well this blows!!

Your paragraph of:

Delivery of Pandora is based on proper licensing from the people who created the music - we have always believed in honoring the guidelines as determined by legislators and regulators, artists and songwriters, and the labels and publishers they work with. In the U.S. there is a federal statute that provides this license for all the music streamed on Pandora. Unfortunately, there is no equivalent license outside the U.S. and there is no global licensing organization to enable any webcaster to legitimately offer its service around the world. The volume of listening on Pandora makes it a very expensive service to run. Streaming costs are very high, and since our inception, we have been making publishing and performance royalty payments for every song we play.

I hate to say this, but you guys are getting ripped off by the government. If this is a matter of licensing and royalties in Canada we already pay a hidden tax on all media storage devices (cd's, mp3 players, hard drives, ect) that goes directly (supposedly) to recording artists. So in reality every Canadian that buys a hard drive, or cd (blank or not) already pays this royalty to those poor old starving artists. So keep our streaming going!

I'm curious about the reasons Pandora can no longer stream into Canada. Is it because of American or Canadian regulations?

This isn't a good bye, it's a see you later, I'll miss you dearly in the meanwhile.

I wish there was something I could write that wouldn't sound selfish - but please understand that when I say that what you are doing here represents something that hasn't just benefited myself, but no doubt many others. This is the first and best example I have seen of combining the staggering potential of focused knowledge, with the capabilities of modern communication, used to develop what I and countless others consider to be a cornerstone in life - music. Pandora is an organic way of getting exposed to new music AND to develop understanding of not just what one likes, but why one likes it. It is unfortunate that such archaic things as money and control have taken it away from those luck to have once had it. I have been following things developing recently, and was really not surprised at all to get the email telling me the other shoe had dropped. But all that being said, every single one of you working on this project should be proud. If and when Pandora comes back to us, I think there will be an even greater appreciation for what it is.

Thank you

Could you offer paid accounts for international and/or US listeners? It's a great service, and I'd gladly pay for it.

this really sucks. pandora was my way of learning new music, keeps me entertained during work and just over all will be a big loss to me. i really hope that you guys can work out at least getting canada back in there. the point of them restricting it to just the states is dumb. why are they so special? any ways best of luck to you guys hope you can change their minds and get canada back in there!

Basically the saddest email I ever got. I freaking LOVE Pandora. I spent lots of time tuning my stations so they were *just* right, and now the rug gets yanked out? *whimper* How am I supposed to continue to discover all sorts of great artists I've never heard of? Surely I won't have to listen to the radio...? ;)

Like some of the other posters above mentioned, If there's anything we can do on our end (ie. write our government, etc) you just say the word.

Best of luck!

I just brought a brand new pair of expensive cups for work.. this is sad news.

I hope you work this out soon and, if there's anything we can do please send another email.

Thanks for everything,
Guillaume

I am also disappointed...but I do have to say I was quite touched by the sincerity of the email you wrote, Tim. Unforunately, in this world we live in, we are all having to dance across tightropes all over the place made out of red tape. Pandora's tightrope got cut, but it's not burned and I'm certain that with enough effort on the part of everyone, something will be done to change the lisencing rules eventually. As long as everyone feels like they "win" in the end.

I'm sorry to hear about this...I will echo the other comments when I say that if there is anything I can do to help the fight for Canada, please keep in touch.

Peace,
Erin

Ah, that is too bad for sure. But I do understand that the music industry is a fragmented bunch, and it is really tough to work out the licensing.

> Dave the Brave
iTunes did not launch in Canada for over a year for the same reason: licensing. Even though the musician s are the same, it is the copyright holder that has say, and separate agreements need to be negotiated. It's is so old school, it boggles the mind. FWIW - same reason iTunes doesn't have any TV content for the Canucks.

I bought many albums from iTunes directly after listening to a track in Pandora. You will be missed!

Sad that the little guy always buckles under the pressure. You WERE being pressured, right? Right?

Ah... very disappointing. Really, your service rock!

I'll miss you guys. If you can solve this one way or another, don't forget to tell us! I discovered so much great music with your service... and I'm sure the artist who get more recognition also like your service.

Damn licencing. Seriously, this RIAA-or-whatever shit is really getting on my nerve.

may 14: Truly a sad day for eclectic music listeners in Canada!!! As always bureaucracy
trumps common sense...We know you'll be doing
what you can to help Mohamet get to the mountain
PLEEEEZE do not loose my e address and hook up when you can. We'll be trying from this end to move the log jam...Is that too many metaphors?
Congrats on the progress that you have made.
missing you...
lbr

Ah man! :(
I certainly hope you guys can resolve this... Pandora is the greatest invention ever!

this sucks, i loved pandora found awesome bands here!!! :(

This is terrible news. We have totally given up on commercial radio since discovering Pandora & will never be able to go back. We have turned many of our family & friends on to Pandora too .... all of them residing in Canada. This just doesn't seem right :(

*sigh*

What to say, what to say. I suppose I, and many others have seen this coming for a while. Unfortunately, I was hoping that something could be done in time, so that us canucks could keep listening.

However, I have a question as well. I don't know if the developers ever look at these comments, but I'll put it out there anyways: What about Yahoo!'s launchcast radio? Although not as good, it operates on a similar basis, and AFAIK it doesn't have any sort of country restrictions. It might be worth finding out how they do it?

I loved listening to Pandora from work. oh well.. Yo ho yo ho pirates life for me.

Well this really sucks!

I can tell you that I have discovered many new-to-me bands while listening to your great service and have bought CD's for these bands. Without Pandora, I never would have known about these bands.

Pandora has been a great service to artists everywhere in getting the music out there.

I really hope to be listening again one day soon.

Good luck with the fight!

As a Canadian listener I can only say that dissapointed over what seems like a load of bureacratic paperwork crap, but I am glad for your continuing push to expand your licence to the global village. Congrats on a wonderful means of exploring new artists and styles, and thanks so much for your service thus far. Let us all know when we can enjoy your site agian, eh.

I looked forward to listening to Pandora while I was at home, work and everywhere else where I can access this website.

It's terrible. I've grown to love new artists where I wouldn't have known if it wern't for your site. I've bought a lot of CDs because of this station.

I will miss you all and everything you've brought to me.

good luck.

Man, that sucks. I listen to Pandora 7 hours a day, 5 days a week.

Come back to Canada soon, I'll be on Last.FM in the meanwhile.

Dear Tim
I am very disappointed! I listen am I am very disappointed! I listen almost everyday I make my work bearable. I have purchased many of the music that I have discovered here! It can only help musicians. Please keep me posted! I will miss it so much!
Blessings
Lisa

Pandora has been an awesome service and I'm glad to have been able to use is as long as I have. Good luck on fighting the good fight, we're behind you all the way.

I also will miss Pandora! It is a great way to listen to and learn about artists I had never heard of before, and probably never would have, ever! I was just starting to make a list of my favourites that had come up, that I wanted to watch for and listen to again, and look up elsewhere to see what was available to buy their CDs. Now I won't be able to.... :(

Fi this decision was made against the excited states of america you would declare war. instead, we will take the passive position and take you over over a coffee, the wood to build your houses and the fuel to heat them!

man that sucks....i love Pandora.

these people harassing you are short-sighted morons... i have been exposed to some great music because of pandora and other internet radio. this makes me more intent than EVER to pirate any music and movies i possibly can (except for indie labels) just to screw these assholes out of every cent.

i'm into supporting artists and the music industry, but i'm not into supporting the vultures! screw the vultures! viva le internet radio! music is meant to be shared!

Alas Pandora, you will be missed, Canada loves you!

Simple solution, redistribute the music from a Canadian server with Canadian licensing.

I'd be more than happy to help you establish a Canadian presence.

Bullshit...total bullshit...and the music industry wonders why people just end up downloading everything for free. The lack of flexibilty and vision among the mainstream music industry just astounds me. I loved Pandora while it lasted and even bought several CDs based on artists the service introduced me to. A Sad Day for sure.. Good luck getting it up and running again though I imagine a small American company will have the time or the financial incentive to enter the Canadian market if it is too difficult or onerous.

C-Dogg

Thanks so much for Pandora and for your work to maintain access. I love listening and am continually jotting down the names of new bands I had never heard of that I plan to check out again.

I look forward to whenever you begin streaming to Canada again, so I can again learn about new music.

Cheers!

... Well it's not illegal to download music in Canada, it's illegal to share it! So them forcing Pandora to block international users including Canada will just make things worse?

Awh man! This is gonna suck arse. :(

No! This development is so sad.
I love Pandora, and how easy it is to discover new artists I'd normally have to dig for (and, who has time?)
The shutdown of the site to Canadians will put a serious damper on my music-listening, especially at work.
If there's any politicians we can write to, or if we should lobby the CRTC, please let us know.
I look forward to hearing about the service's re-launch here.

-Janet in Saskatoon

This is like many things today that are good,we are only seeing the continued start of things to come.

Political will continues to be on the move hang on to your hats watch the papers / television / puplic radio and more.

Thanks for the time we could enjoy "Pandora", fight the good fight in the days ahead.

Are you kidding me? Let me just that I'm super disappointed because U'd think that on the internet, it wouldnt matter what country your in but you'd still get a chance to have the right to use the same services as someone in the US.
I doubt this will ever be clarified, because as a company it's probably not even worth keeping your Canadian Listeners...is it.
Oh well, I will just move on to the next company that comes up with the same thing...only better.

I had only just discovered Pandora recently (after my daughter clued me in) and could hardly believe how great it is, discovering a whole world of music I wouldn't have known about otherwise. . . Please, please come back soon. Thanks for the good time.

Thankyou for remembering our info, bookmarked items and such... I will hold faith and hope that you will one day be able to restream in my country (though of course I'll be moving to Scotland next year, I wonder how that will work?), in the mean time...

Keep on rockin' in the free world!

I just recieved the sad, sad e-mail that told me I will no longer have access to my beloved Pandora, simply because I am a proud Canuck. And so, tonight I listen to it one more time, with a tear in the corner of my eye, hoping that one day I will be allowed to listen again.

If it had to come to paying for this service, I would be happy to do so! Keep up the fight Pandora, we love our music and want it back!!!

This definitely sucks.
I'm confident you guys will fix this ASAP. Just point out all the money the industry is missing out on. I will personally buy hundreds of dollars (or more) worth of CDs due to Pandora (already working on it from the ones I found while it lasted). And that's just me.

Don't apologize Tim...The amount of happiness you and the Pandora staff have supplied to those of us outside the States is immeasurable. An incredible resource that has guided so many of us to new music and just simply made our lives better. Since we non-U.S. residents essentially snuck into the club with fake IDs, we can't really complain about getting tossed. But it's tough to look in from the street...

I must say I'll never understand the music rights issue and why the owners of copyrights charge such a huge amount or simply prevent the use of their music. Though I'm sure it's not a valid comparison, another sad recent case of short term thinking with copyrights was the release of "WRKP In Cincinnati" on DVD. Though most people are screaming at Fox for their music replacement and removal of scenes with certain songs in the background, the reality is that the copyright holders are asking so much for each song in the show that it is financially impossible for the studio to turn a profit. Therefore, they release hacked up versions that ruin the spirit and intention of the old show. With the current setup, it guarantees that we will NEVER see the original show ever again. One would think that smaller costs would allow the songs to be included which would reach greater audiences who may then want to buy those same songs driving even more revenue...

Sorry for the tangent. Again, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Best of luck and I await the day when Pandora once again reaches my ears. I'll be watching what you guys come up with next. And if you ever want to make it up to Toronto for a Meet, we'd love to have ya. And while Molson is OK, we'll point ya to the good beer...B-)

Bummer! We'll miss you guys. I hope you make it to Canada soon. Thanks for the good tunes!

Hmm. Well there is a simple solution. rent a motel room here in canada and put a steaming server in it. You would then be streaming *in* Canada, not *to* Canada. well I would cry, but it wont help. What about the canadian music in pandora? what about their music? You cant stream that to us either? perhaps you need transcend your us borders and grow into a multinational corporation. Dammit what a terrible thing to do. Can we get a message to the Hip? maybe Gord Downy can sing about it? Aw crap this just sucks. I am listening to pandora till the minute you block my IP. It was a Great idea guys, to bad you had to do it in such a restrictive place. RIP Pandora, the best radio stations the net has ever known.

Well either you can't do it because of United states great fear of losing control and power or Canada's CRTC rules. However, why is it that we are allowed to get satellite radio? Isn't that streaming from the US or somewhere?
Anyways, I'll assist in your fight or set up a base for you here in Canada if that's what you need. Contact me.

It's like they WANT us to pirate music.

I think your country needs some work. Want help?

I'm really disappointed to hear that. I hope that some headway can be made with our government, perhaps via the CRTC. :(

I loved listening to Pandora from work.
ha ha!

This is so stupid. Pandora is the best recommendation engine I've ever come across for music, and I have ended up buying music from several of the artists I heard first here. I'm not into long time streaming, but I love it for discovery. I prefer iTunes for stuff I'd like to keep, or even physical CDs, and then I can take it with me off-line. However, Pandora gives me the whole track, not just 30 seconds. Stupid...

On a related note - how come Last.fm are still streaming? I would think they would be affected by the same restrictions causing problems for Pandora?

I do hope you will be able to resolve this issue at reasonable terms. Keep on fighting!

peace,
airwhale - currently blocked in Sweden

Dang... There's always (ugh...) Last.fm; everyone's favorite complicated interest-based software radio dealie. I'm gonna miss you, Pandora!

I'm gonna fail my exams now without the wonderful pandora to calm me down.I love you pandora!

This really sucks, I love Pandora.

Keep up the good fight, all your Canadian listeners are thankful for the service you've been able to provide thus far. Too bad Canada can't get a joint law/licence with the US.

All the best and I hope to be able to listen again one day soon,
Katie

I'm really upset about this. Pandora is... sorry, was... my first daily visit of the day to get music playing and start off my time at work as a happy one.

Thanks Pandora and your entire team for a great service that has provided me with some great new music to listen to, your service has opened my eyes to new artists, bands, and music. Tweaking my playlist to a style that fit me, it was great to see a service that actually UNDERSTOOD my taste in music and worked flawlessly.

I really hope you find a solution to bring Pandora back to Canada.

All the best,
Chad

too bad, I listen for 1/2 hour every day before I close up shop, Good luck in the futur

This is sad.... what most people dont understand is that Pandora helps the artist.. seriously, since i started listening to pandora, I discovered a ton of new bands and made me buy their cd's. Its not a Napster or Kazaa where you could do massive download abuse. This is bullshit.
Lets hope for a ressurection.

-WhiteC

I love Pandora and the fact that you're giving in to pressure really saddens me.

How can you explain all the other stations that will continue to stream to Canada? You're only harming internet radio by making your decision in spite of your peers.

The least you can do is buckle when everyone else buckles. Unless internet radio stands UNITED, it has no hope of making a case for itself.
Now, in any case more assertive stations make, you've given RIAA etc... one example to cite of a "well behaved" site they successfully collared.

Sincerely, you should reverse your decision before the real damage is done.

Pandora is great. Pandora should be ashamed.

That really bad.. I will play it until the last minute !

Hope you can make it global really soon.

Thanks for the time we could listen it.

It's quite extraordinary, isn't it. Other industries can only *dream* of treating their customers with the contempt that the music industry does.

Aw, this sucks! (as other commenters have said).
I love Pandora.
I'll go back to my itunes radio and radioparadise for now, but hope that Pandora gets back to us Canadians soon!
If there's a petition we can sign, let us know!

This service will be incredibly missed. Hopefully, your services will be available truly en masse in the future.

I think i finally realized how much i really enjoyed pandora, to bad its to late... Thanks for the excellent service. I appreciate what you've done.

Dear Sirs,

All I can say is I love this program. You play all my kind of music, everyone that comes over to my home does't want to go home, they always want to stay and keep lisening to my music.
So all I say is THANK YOU so much!

I cannot express how disappointed we are that we will no longer have access to Pandora, especially since the site just keeps getting better and better as time passes. What is a true Canadian audiophile to do? You have brought us access to music we may never have discovered any other way. So many hours of enjoyment. What a shame. What do we do now? How can Canada be excluded? I just don't understand. Typical government bulls**t. We will be waitng for you, and hoping the wait won't be too long....what to do now???? So sad.... :( :(

This must be controlled by the same outfit that governs the CBC. I don't know why they would want to block Pandora because they only play music from Africa and South America. As for our local stations, they are continually chasing the teenagers with the heavy metal and rap noise.
Hope you can resolve the problem soon. Let me know if there is anything we can do from this end. Thanks a lot for the short-but-enjoyable times we spent listening.

For sure this a very sad moment for all of us. I would be the first in line to apply for the Canadian version of Pandora/Candora *S* . I will do anything in this fight to keep pandora in Canada. keep up the good work regardless. You will be missed severely.

I guess it's only a matter of time before you turn the UK off as well. Well I'll keep listening as long as I can. After that I don't know where I'm going to get music from. Can't buy it from big corporations after what they did to you. No way!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

I knew internet radio was under fire, I just never actually expected it to draw such casualties. I use Pandora literally every day. It's sad and stupid to see it go.

What am I supposed to listen to now? The radio? So I can catch up on the latest mass-produced filler?

So much for finding new music. I suspect it'll be a long, long while before I buy another CD.

Back to Yahoo I guess. Too bad it doesn't run on the Mac at work though.

When I discover Pandora I stoped completly dl albums on the net and I discover some rly nice bands I didnt know before and bought there albums. I really dont understand why Canada dont have the same licenses as the US for music streamed on the net. GG Canada, now more Canadians will dl albums illegaly on the net.

Fellow Pandora-nadians -

Who'll join me in contacting this list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Canadian_record_labels) of Canaidan labels and encourage them to proactively seek agreements with Tim?

As I commented in the other thread, in a sane world they'd be paying Pandora to play their music, not the other way around. As a minimum they can contract for the same fees they collect from radio normally.

And I'm betting that the Canadian-based labels will be a little more inclined to open the trend up. Let's lobby them together - it's not like it won't help their sales if they're the ONLY sources for Pandora:Canada or Pandora:International for a while.

Follow the link - contact the labels!

I live in Vancouver and sometimes I like to tune in to a Seattle radio station. Am I a criminal?

Try www.slacker.com

It is unfortunate that the entertainment industries are in a state of lockdown like this. I find it very interesting, and frustrating that the initial reaction from government (lesser so in Canada but it is coming) and the content owners is to ratchet down the rules until they forcefully control technology initiatives, like Pandora. I realize that these licensing schemes are a way to make the internet mirror existing platforms, like broadcast radio. But, in my mind regionalizing entertainment like this does not mortgage the power of the internet to a companies advantage (or the copyright holders).

A long tail business (one that sells or uses a very large number of items) increases its business potential by offering products or services that can meet an individuals needs directly, and offer suggestions out of its limitless catalogue. Unfortunately this concept does not exist in the music or movie industries. Everything physical is limited to a country or region. Because of this licensing structure, Pandora has a Catch 22 in its operation.

For a service like this to be of value to a potential user/customer it needs that limitless catalogue of music. That costs in royalties per song. One way for Pandora to make money and recoup these costs, is to advertise. And, ad dollars are directly related to audience size. You can see that catch, the larger the audience, the more money can be brought in, and the more songs paid for. That should encourage growth of the audience, and thus grow revenue. If the audience is reduced then both the income of the service and the size of its catalogue should suffer. That means it is in Pandoras best interest to try and broadcast its service to the largest audience possible, preferably globally.

One solution would be to set up:

Pandora.ca
Pandora.au
Pandora.uk
etc.

But, they would probably have to pay at least something for each version of itself, and that might not make sense or be very easy to implement.

I guess what I am trying to say is; I get it and I wish Pandora luck.

I hope you guys CAN indeed prevail and fulfill your vision of truly global reach. Parochialism is so stupid.

I am really like all your offerings, but hope to find a reasonable alternative. Thanks for keeping the backstage open and for the goodwill of storing our stations. Hope to hear you again soon, in full.

Indeed, so sad! I really enjoyed Pandora while at school in the US and carried it up to my family and friends when I moved back to Canada. It's been amazing and I've loved it all. Thanks to everyone at Pandora for your efforts! We hope to hear from you again :)

This is awful news!

Pandora is a milestone, a jewel, someting truly special. We cannot allow big American business to cut Canadians off.

We can pay for the service.
We can keep nagging at the decision makers.
We can find ways around.

It was great while it lasted. Good luck kicking RIAA butt! You know you've got a potential pile of loyal listeners/subscribers here, eh?

Very sorry to see this. A few thoughts:

1. I think that a lot of people in Canada would welcome your input on what could be done to address the issue - contact members of parliament, the regulator (CRTC), the recording industry people...?

2. I believe that a paid subscription service would be worth exploring.

3. How does Apple get away with streaming music on itunes?

4. Would anonymizer programs work - you don't have to answer that.

5. Finally, I never did figure out your business model - there are no ads, the sound is good, no email harassment... How do you drive all of those fancy cars (just kidding). Seriously?

Hopefully, this is temporary. Until then...

Disappointing in the extreme. I'm cheered that my stations will be available to me when I'm travelling to the States, at least.

I assume this is US (RIAA?) regulations? Your constituency wants to know!

Wow, I almost had a heart attack when I got this e-mail, my friend was there with me and he didn't believe it at first. I've discovered innumerable bands through pandora, and like some of the eariler posters, this service definitely dragged me away from pirate tracks. Please come back soon!

Everyone -

Thanks for sending us such wonderful notes. It means an awful lot to us - even if it just makes it harder.

Wanted to answer a couple questions that seem to be popping up.

1. Is this a US or a Canadian issue? The short answer to that is that it's a Canadian issue. There is simply NO license currently available to stream legally into Canada, for anyone. Not just Pandora. Int'l law mandates that all performers be paid and there is no body that has the rights to grant and administer this fee. So a 'label deal' doesn't actually do the trick. You need the equivalent of the DMCA/SoundExchange combo that exists in the US.

2. What can I do about this in Canada? While I'm not an expert on your political/policy system, we're currently in the middle of a massive grassroots campaign directly with the US congress here to protect internet radio from some recently published predatory licensing fees. Is there an equivalent to "call your congressperson?" perhaps - "call your member of parliament?" In the long run this is a public policy and consumer issue that will be driven by popular support.

3. Can you just move to another country? No. The license is based on where the LISTENER is, not the webcaster. So I'm afraid that doesn't solve the problem. This lack of a license affects all webcasters, no matter where they are...

Don't give up... we're not...

Tim (Founder)

There are only three web sites I'd say I can't live without: Google, NetVibes and Pandora. Taking one away is like killing one of my children. Good luck with your fight, and I look forward to the day when I get an email from Tim about Pandora again being available in Canada.

I am very disappointed by this unfortunate turn of events. I have greatly enjoyed Pandora and learned so much about what kind of music I like and been exposed to an array of music that there would have been no other way of being exposed to. It is not practical to walk into a CD shop and buy random CDs in hope of finding something new. Yet with Pandora I have found many new artists some who have become new favorites. Commercial radio with it's playlists exposes you to so very little new. Pandora has taken me in new musical directions and made a perminant change in the way and what I listen too. It is sad when a special interest group can get between the artists and their audience simply for their own financial gain. I remain hopeful that this is not the end. There is so much potential left in technology and the internet that I can not imagine that there will not be further steps forward in the future. But, hopefully the change will come in regulation rather that waiting for a technological solution. For now, so long Pandora, hopefully we will meet again soon.

Maybe you should disable playing of Canadian artists to your US listeners. I'm sure a huge percentage of the new music enjoyed by the US audience is coming from the Canadian Indie Scene. Cutting out that percentage would help entice more people to petition their local congressperson to address these ridiculous laws which are being passed.

Thanks, Tim!

I can't imagine how a contract with the label couldn't 'do the trick' as you say. Is it simply a monitoring issue - there's no body in place able to prove you're properly paying the artists?

In any event the rights holders would be the only ones with 'standing' in the legal sense. If they grant permission, I can't see how that could possibly *not* be legally solid.

Honestly, I recommend you get a second legal opinion, from a Canadian lawyer with a specialty in copyright law. It sounds like the opinions you're receiving are prohibitive, and (as several people have mentioned) seem to be being actively contravened by other businesses which show no signs of being illegitimate.

In the meanwhile, we'll certainly be contacting our representatives (Canadians - you can use http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/people/house/PostalCode.asp to locate your MP - take five minutes and send them an email!). I've compiled a list of email contacts for Canadian labels, as well, and even if some arcane legal loophole gets in your way, folks like Nettwerk and Sonic Union will be staunch allies who certainly shouldn't be neglected.

You not only have our best wishes, you have our active support, sir. Keep kicking!

I add to the growing list of disappointed users. I've been listening to Pandora for about a year now and have told everyone I know...all Canadians... about it. Heck, even my doctor uses it to create "custom" radio stations for all of his acupuncture patients. I know he'll be greatly disappointed as well.

As a web professional I see this a lot. Our laws, both here in Canada and abroad, simply have not caught up to the technology. Technological advances continue in leaps and bounds, while the lawmakers keep trudging along at a turtle-like pace.

If there's anything Canadians can do to help you resolve this, please let us know. You have our full support.

This really makes me sad. But alas, what can we do?

If there is something I can do, I would. Good luck! I look forward to when we can get Pandora back.

All I have to say is that people should not complain alot because Pandora will cause people to buy more music because they find more of what they like and thus help the whole industry. But technicalities and complications, right? Anyways, good luck!

Like everyone else has said, this is sad news. Your service was the simply, the best! I will miss Pandora terribly.

I'll hope for the day you're able to come back. I'd be happy to pay an annual fee it that is of any help - Pandora radio is worth it!

Pandora in Canada was great while it lasted. I guess it's time to go back to P2P.

Is there any way you can offer music not tied to such archaic licensing structures? Most of the music I listen to through Pandora does not appear to be tied to the RIAA.

We should do a Digg revolt. How do we start it? :P

Yeah that's a sad day for canadians. :(

I can only echo what everyone here has said already. Thanks for all your efforts and I hope the fat cats that have cut us off take the time to read some of the positive impact you have had on music as a whole, however I doubt the greedy ba$tards will consider changing anything...

cr

It's great to listen to complete songs online, but I also really treasure the whole Music Genome thing.

How about just streaming 30-second samples ? I'd listen in.

Hi, I really enjoyed listening to Pandora. In fact half of our lab seems to listen to it..
I wish you lots of success for the future.. see you soon, I hope :)

This will be a sad loss. I only wish us Canucks could help somehow. Pandora was the only thing that really got me through a school day. Personally I think this is rediculous, as there is Canadian music on Pandora anyways, it should be allowed to be listened by the country that provides (some of) the music.

I will miss Pandora greatly, please keep fighting!

Internet radio will survive all the problems comming up!

That's too bad. I must have bought about 10 songs from iTunes because of Pandora, supporting artists who I'd never heard of. Politics once again blind to the reality of art and commerce.

I just have to concur with my Canadian friends. Right now I'm listening to "All over but the crying" by the Georgia Satellites. Quite apropos. Hope to get Pandora back asap!!

I always have Pandora playing in the background when I'm on my computer. This blows! Big time!

You were great..............

I really appreciated the service Pandora is providing - even us here in canada. Please let us know what we can do to get the service here - your northern neighbors.

I'm so bummed about this I can hardly express it. I operate a live music venue and so am well-acquainted with the vagaries of music licensing. There has to be some mechanism for distributing royalties but the music industry persists in acting like buggy manufacturers at the dawn of the automobile.

Keep up the good work, Pandora guys.

I've really enjoyed Pandora and it's only getting better.
I'm moving stateside in a few months, so I'll be looking forward to listening again soon.
I hope sometime soon there will be improvements in the ability to allow Canadians and others to enjoy this great program.
I've discovered so much music I never would have been able to hear.

I subscribed yesterday... just to get cut off.
In fact I was running an internet radio a few years back but when those law in the USA started to be applied my radio streaming provider was forced to rise their price significantly and it became too expensive for me to run the radio anymore.

I don't think there is a way that we Canadians can help because its american laws that is stopping Pandora from broadcasting probably because they are based in the USA. I believe its because the USA doesnt have any international law for internet radio yet.

I still don't understand what is the problem with internet radio or why would the USA want to protect their artist from being hear elsewhere. Being heard more means more sales usually. I think it all comes down to the disc labels that wants more money.

Remember if you want to encourage your favorite artist go see them live. That's where they get paid. Music distributions is only making the label companies richer. However the artists needs to be known to perform and attract people to their shows. Distribution is an important part for the artist to make them known to the public. In other words they need each other.

While I was running my little illegal internet radio I did produce around 1000$ per month in music sales for the artists I was playing on my radio trough referral to online music stores.

Anyway enough said I will be listening to Pandora the whole day until they cut me off. Gotta enjoy it while it last.

This just totally f***in' sucks... I hope whoever thought up this absurd law-thinger quits (read: dies) and the next person is smart enough to not have it.

Bye, wish you guys all the best.

--- Your northern neighbor

Oh noes ... this makes me so sad ...

I should really share what I think about Pandora.com:

I have discovered a lot of songs that I really liked because of Pandora.com. I visit this site everyday to listen to the music - I have the link pasted on my tool bar for quick access!

Not to mention that I have always thought that this was a very creative idea; the concept of putting in your favourite song or artist to get songs and artists of similar style just blows my mind! It really helps people like me, who don't have a particular band or artist they are interested in, but more so in the individual songs. I never know where to start looking for songs that may interest me, so Pandora.com really opened up a lot of opportunities for me to find songs that I will like.

Try not to be too disappointed in yourselves ... you tried your best, and I think a lot of people (me included) are thankful for the station you've created for us. Sometimes a little bite of the sweet cake is better than no bite at all!

Thanks a lot, and I hope things will get better from here on,

From your northern neighbour,
Ami

So Sad to see an awesome service shut off. Pandora was addictive and our music library has really enjoyed the refresher.

Best of luck!
You guys pioneered the way and it was a really smart service. I am sure there will be something not half as slick but available soon with all revenues going into pirate hands.

aww. as a dj your program helps me discover new music all the time.
I wish you the best of luck in being able to get to stream into canada again.

I am so sad...this has been the best service ever and I've discovered so many artists and bands that I would never have known about before.
Is it possible to get the paid service in Canada?
If not, I hope this policy is not around forever. Keep up the good work and please send an email if there is a way for us Canadians to help!

What can I do to help?

That really sux, but I will make sure to listen to u again when u are available in Canada. Really enjoyed the opportunity to 'create' my own radio station. Thanks again.

HOOO My god!!!! Since I know Pandora, I have bought so many albums!!! It is ironic to think, that at the end, artist are going to loose money because of these stupid laws...

That is it, I am moving in the USA!! No more stupid Canucks laws and organisation like the CRTC!!!!!

I still can't beleive it... It is too bad...

This is sad news.

If there's something we can do, let us know.

Pandora is a wonderful idea and I listened to it all the time...Thank you for all the great moments you brought into all your Canadian friends homes.

Sammi

CANADIANS-- don't petition your MP's to develop a system like the americans have! it's america that has corrupt greed like a cancer at its heart! we don't need to develop licensing regimes modeled on them.

i don't understand why you, pandora, cannot give your formula to a canadian to stream from canada. then no laws are broken? or better yet, go european, where some countries are very stubborn in the face of the FIAA. k? then the world will have pandora again...

they ruined OLGA, too, a wonderful resource for tab. i hate these people with a vengeance.

Thankyou for the time we did have with Pandora. I think what you do is the most amazing service you can possibly have. Tailored to personal interests makes it so much more enjoyable. Thank you thank you thank you and I hope it will once again be availible in Canada. I really enjoyed it. If there is anything us Canadians can do, please inform us.

Muah!
xoxoxoxoxo
Samantha D

I'm confused regarding the problems with licensing... Can't Pandora just pay as per the IFPI reciprocal webcasting scheme (see http://www.ifpi.org/content/section_news/20031111.html and http://www.surgeradio.co.uk/~mgh/SRA/PPL_Online_License_International.doc)?? Last.fm seems to be able to manage the relevant international licenses??

I have always loved Canada. I sit and look at Canada not more than 1000 yards across the river, and am saddened by their loss of jobs (paper mill shutdown), loss of U.S. visitors (PassPort issues) and now loss of Pandora! Life ain't RIGHT, damn it!

Well I guess I'll have to start downloading pirated music.

I have just been telling everybody about this cool site. It was the best I usually listened while at work and it was perfect because you could have it as mellow as you want and then have another channel for at home. Great job on this site, I just wish the politicians would leave us be!!

You guys have been great...learned tons of new bands from you guys...me and a few buddies sit in programming/apps class listening to this the whole time...hope you guys make it to Canada! You have our full support

Sad to hear, I used Pandora every work day for at least 4 hours fore the last year or so. I have dozens of post-it notes of music I discovered. I used to never buy CD's but after my post-it notes started to fill up, I'v been buying 5-6 cd's a week! You will truly be missed Pandora! I would pay for this!

This Sucks and Blows!!!I use this so much!Damn

Too bad, so short sighted on their part. I've actually bought MORE CDs as a result of listening to Pandora

Pandora was/is the best approach to music I've ever experienced. I would gladly pay a subscription to continue receiving it. Canada has its own convoluted and archaic rules when it comes to broadcasting, and so I anticipate many more hoops will have to be jumped through before we Canucks can once again enjoy your intelligently chosen music. Thanks, Pandora team, for showing us the future.

AARRRGH!!! I feel lost. I've come to enjoy Pandora at work so much that I now feel lost without it. It's so quiet! Now I can hear others around me instead of concentrating on the music when I want to drown them out, or ignore them. I feel like I've lost a tempo to work with.

What can we do from the Canadian side? Who do we contact to get the ball rolling to allow streaming into Canada? Or is this only because of American legislation? Or is it a bit of both. What can I do to help?

This just bites. No other word for it. Pandora is the best thing to happen to radio period in a long long time. I've been intro'd to so many artists I would never have encountered otherwise. I really hope you come up north soon!!!

why is it that you guys dont just open an office in europe and declare it as your new headquarter? i mean, you would just need a few guys over here to do the financial stuff and handle the taxes..

wouldn't that be way cooler than shutting down a service that was to become one of the stars of this current web boom? i hate to see the internet become more and more fragmented country-wise. this shit was once called "the world wide web" before it was called "web 2.0". does 2.0 mean "restricted access" or what? bluaaah, i hate that.

just take a heart and open a lil' euro-office. if they fuck the royalties up over here as well, then at least you dont lose against last.fm again!

Wow. What a shocker.

It truely saddens me that i wont be able to discover music anymore.

There is no alternative radio that does your type of thing.

Oh well. it was great while it lasted.

This is terrible. I've bought many CDs I found on Pandora. Luckily, one of my favourite bands found through your site has gone independent. I'd rather pay money to support independent artists than support large companies that treat their customers as criminals.

I know that many artists would not have become as popular without Pandora. I have personally discovered many MANY new artists that would never have come to Saskatchewan any other way, and have started growing fan bases in my home town for many. I honestly believe that small artists are going to be harmed incredibly when services such as this are taken out of the hands of the populace. It's just such great exposure for them!!

I also would be willing to pay a fee for this service. Work is INCREDIBLY long and boring without it, and internet radio sucks.

man this is terrible. i was showing a friend of mine at work and to my shock the site didn't work.

good luck guys

Oh, lord, it is like someone cut a huge chunk out of my life.

We need to start boycotting all Canadian Content on CDs and DVDs

I don't like being told what I can or cannot listen to.
There is something rotten here and it stinks.

This really sucks.

Pandora has renewed my interest in new music. As many have stated here, I have discovered many new music talents, several that I have now added to my Ipod. I have shared my experience with many and have helped expand the subculture.

While I am extremely disapointed with the decision, I do commend you on the way in which it has been communicated to us. I will remain a loyal fan and keep up to date on any new developments.

Thank you for creating a fantastic music experience for me.

I will miss you!!

Until we get service back, this is the next best thing: http://last.fm

What a drag, I found all kinds of new music on Pandora, and when I did I usually went to itunes and BOUGHT THE MUSIC. Stick that in your lisencing pipe and smoke it .

Like always we will have to wait for archaic laws to catch up to technology...

blahh. too bad. love listening to pandora! Will miss it. I use it all the time while I'm working/creating... oh well.

This completely sucks. I listen to Pandora all day long at work! What am I going to listen to now, the freakin horrible pop crap they pipe in all day long to drive you nuts?

Noooooooo! Come back soon!

Why not see if there is enough interest from canadian listeners to apply for a canadian broadcast license and offer pandora to us as a paid subscription?
or... someone needs to find out what Canadians have to do to get the CRTC to not be jerks and let us listen to Pandora

"to stream legally outside the U.S"

I disagree with this point. If canadian RIAA does not want you to stream, they have a problem. This is not your problem.

I repeat: you are streaming Spanish music and RIAA is not going to pay anything to these people. Your rights are in the US, not in Spain. If I listen an ilegal radio is my problem, not yours.

As an alternative to actually streaming into Canada:

Would it be possible to send your Canadian listeners a monthly listing of all the artists / song titles that you have linked to their individual stations? You said in your announcment that you would continue to maintain our email addresses and stations until such time that you could again stream into Canada. This could be a stopgap measure to maintain your Canadian listeners interest until that time.

NOt sure if this is feasible but if it could be done ( id pay for it ) you would likely make many people happy.

Food for Thought,

Eric

Just to set the record straight here:

What's at issue appears to be the collective license fees to be paid to SOCAN (http://www.socan.ca/) and the CMRAA (http://www.cmrra.ca/) within Canada. Just recently - March 16th - the Copyright Board of Canada did arrive at a decision regarding the CMRAA tariffs on music download services, which had been similarly up in the air.

If you go to the Copyright Board's website (http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/new-e.html), you'll find listed "Tariffs under Advisement: Tariff 22" which is the main proposed SOCAN license which would cover Pandora's services. This is between "Decisions made" and "Upcoming Hearings" in temporal sequence. The text of the proposed tariff can be read at (http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/tariffs/proposed/ma20052006-b.pdf).

An excellent column exploring this topic can be found at (http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1863/159/). He notes that SOCAN's proposed Tariff 22 is potentially pretty brutal, something like 15% of gross revenues with a minimum of $200/month. They've been negotiating back and forth on this; I believe the original was higher, while other groups' proposals are rather lower. They all tend to use the percentage of revenues model, though. I couldn't tell you if that's better or worse for Pandora than the US model.

If folks want to contact someone, it looks like the Copyright Board "welcomes your comments" at (secretariat@cb-cda.gc.ca). I encourage everyone to write to this address and voice your concerns about Tariff 22.

My own email will center on the fact that online streaming services (without download capability) are a strong driver of sales in other sectors, much like conventional radio but (for Pandora and the like) are even more effective at generating sales. This resemblance suggests something much closer to Tariff 1.A on commercial radio (which, looking it up, is to SOCAN&NRCC a total of 4.64% on the first $1.25million of annual revenue, and 6.5% on the rest), than to the tariffs levied on online music services for download. The similarity to radio in form and access is much stronger than the similarity in medium to online download services such as Puretracks.

I don't know how much impact public outcry can have on the Board's decisions... but it's worth a shot!

I'll paraphrase the note I sent Tim and the good people at customer service the other day:
* Pandora loses a customer
* I lose an inventive way to find all these bands and artists I never knew existed
* those artists lose the revenue from me wanting to go see them and buy their music
Who exactly is being protected when everyone loses?
Oh well, make to regular FM radio. "Bohemian Rhapsody" for the four millionth time anybody?
May 16 shall go down as "Black Wednesday".
Please take care of my surf and blues/roots stations.
bj

Hi all -

Just wanted to reiterate something that seems to be coming up frequently. This is an issue with Canadian licensing, not the US. The US law is actually in better shape as it provides all the necessary licenses and administrative structure to make the necessary payments. SoCan is not the problem. They handle publishing. What's at issue are the 'performance' royalties that need to be paid to the musicians, by law (ie. the cowbell player too...).

So yes, please to start rattling some cages up there. I'm sure your parliament and courts will notice. Politicians, lawyers and judges are music fans too!

Thanks. Tim (Founder)

Unreal...i would use pandora to listen to at work...it was great. Thx anyways Tim for the time it was available to us canadian folk.

thanks to eric finlay for giving us a place to start looking. writing my mp just isn't going to cut it since they are way more concerned about fighting crime in the big city.

thanks again to pandora for a year of great music and great recommendations.

new and indie bands thrive and become popular because of recommendations and pandora has been amazing at recommending artists that otherwise would have remained hidden from my view and that continue to be hidden from the view of mainstream radio.

i hope that pandora works to actively recruit whatever listenership they have lost because of the need to lock out canada and other international listeners so that these artists do not suffer decreased sales that pandora so obviously helped to drive.

a sad day indeed.

I am the saddest girl in the world.

Such bad bad bad news. i feel a bit helpless. Hope to hear pandora soon. Thank you so much for my year of great music!!

Thanks to Eric posting May 18 for setting out the realities of the situation, and for information about what we can do.

It would be interesting to hear from Pandora where they stand with this process.

In the meantime, I agree with everybody that finally getting cut off was a real blow. I also agree that this proves that the media industry is totally nuts -- OK, let's just drive everybody back into illegal downloading. Pandora has massively and legally expanded my interest in music, that is, the product the industry supposedly likes to sell.

hi, i just read about the restrictions(sorry for my writing) i'm so sad, i love pandora, but i understand the laws, anyway, keep the good work , you're really great, and i hope someday here in my country we cant have pandora too.
hugs, and good luck.
bye

This is such a loss to Canadians, I certainly hope this can be fixed soon! Pandora is awesome.

alalala~ sad news. :(

glad that the podcast is still up though.

we'll wait patiently for things to sort out.

I thoroughly enjoyed Pandora while it lasted. We should find out what goverenment officials we have to pressure to have this reversed and do it.

I wonder what this does to other webcast's, internet radio, and licensed podcasts.

I first heard about it when I was living in Prague, CZ and was delighted to have access to the variety of music this site provided. It provided exposure to new and different artists that I could not have possibly known about otherwise. Now back in Canada, I am so sad that I will no longer have access to my custom made stations.
Please keep the northern Pandora listeners updated on what we can do. Is it possible to have a pandora.ca?

All I can say is wow...

I have a monthly subscription to e-music and Pandora is...er was... the way I was finding new music to buy on e-music. This just doesn't make any sense. Here I am using a music service to find and BUY new music... and copyright industry (supposedly protecting the artists) is going to great lengths to shut it down.

Honestly, the folks at these organizations and the RIAA, MPAA, etc. cannot spell PARADIGM SHIFT. Gee, hope I spelled that right...

I just want to say thanks to Tim and his team for all the hard work. You've built an awesome service and I hope to have the pleasure of using it again some day. Good luck and long live Pandora!

I have a curious question - how come last.fm can stream to Canada and other countries? Are they breaking any kind of laws or agreements or are they going bust for having to pay for outragous licensing costs?

At first because of your letter I thought that it was just impossible to find a legal way to stream the music - now I'm wondering how Last.Fm does it?

This is such an arbitrary and ridiculous decision. Canada is the most wired country in the world with the population of California...A significant buying population not to be trifled with.

What are the people who merchandise think is going to happen? We'll receive and buy our music from another source...suckers and idiots, they are just as short sighted as the RIAA.

Tim - you said that SOCAN was not the problem, it's the performance royalties. Is that the CMRRA, then? As far as I can see, the CMRRA doesn't even have a proposed tariff with the Copyright Board which would cover Pandora; they've got that recent decision on on-demand streaming services, and nothing in the pipe that I can find.

Can you explain exactly which Canadian bodies are preventing your streaming, and on what grounds (or, otherwise put, which tariff structures are lacking at present), so that we can be properly informed in lobbying to change this?

Update to that last - I just got off the phone with someone at the CMRRA, who assures me that they are not the ones responsible for the request that Pandora cease streaming into Canada. In fact, the fellow I spoke to was an (ex-) paid subscriber to Pandora - he was himself quite put out!

Now pursuing inquiries with the CREA (Canadian equivalent to the RIAA - not that I have a lot of hope there!), and the NRCC, to see what their comments are on this issue.

Whee!

Okay, after a couple more inquiries with reps from the CRIA (my typo earlier, sorry) and the NRCC, it sounds like there are two underlying issues; one of them is a global problem, one of them could be solved using a workaround (soon).

The global problem has to do with a company in country A streaming music into country B. As the person I spoke to at the NRCC put it, that's not going to go away until the international trade law gets revised - which is so slow that Pandora could go in and out of business five times before this body of law even remotely caught up.

However, the solvable one is less insurmountable. A Canadian company, streaming internet radio within Canada, paying SOCAN's Tariff 22 (in whatever form and details the Copyright Board accepts it, decision shortly) and also the equivalent CMRRA/NRCC tariff (which has not yet been submitted to the Copright Board, which is why I couldn't find it on their website, but they're writing a proposal for one), would be fully legal under Canadian law.

Whether it was a profit-making venture is a separate decision - but I am assured that it's not impossible that a Canadian subsidiary to Pandora could exist, and operate legally (at least once those two tariffs are ratified). No further negotiations would be required - that being the point of the NRCC and SOCAN, they administer getting the money out to the artists, eliminating the need for label-by-label negotiations. [Obviously this is not a legal opinion, but I did get a specific "Yes" to this question from the NRCC.]

I have a day job. I can't offer to do it. But the overhead on a Canadian company, using the same decision-making software and the same list of songs, would surely not be all that high. In exchange for access to a market equal to at least 10% of the US market by size (probably larger due to a higher percentage of the population being sufficiently far above the poverty line), this seems like a pretty tenable proposition - as long as the tariffs are reasonable in size.

So. To facilitate this, Canadian fans could potentially contact the Copyright Board and encourage them to make settling SOCAN Tariff 22 and the equivalent NRCC tariff a priority; also encourage them to keep the tariffs down in the zone occupied by terrestrial radio, not up in the heights levied against music download services.

And if any Canadian entrepreneur wants to contact Tim and co. with a business proposition, they can count on *my* subscription money at the very least.

God knows I would pay a subscription fee to hear Pandora again. I have spent a week trying to find a decent online radio station...one that plays music I liked...and found nothing. It's all crap. I can reiterate as well what others are saying in that it was a wonderful source for me for finding new stuff, of which I found a lot! A lot of bands, singers, etc, have a new fan in me because of Pandora. I can hardly wait to you come back and will help in any way I possibly can.

tragically sad. will miss you a lot. Lets hope someone out there can find a way around this. I hate being manipulated, music should be allowed to be shared and be allowed to be listened freely.

From: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/05/01/lastfm_pandora_netradio_royalties/

Keep this blog entry alive - make a website for Pandora fans from Canada! (e.g. http://canada.tribe.net/welcome)

In the meantime, I'll have to use Last.fm (Can't you guys from Pandora get help from Google or YouTube?)

Why Last.fm isn't sweating the RIAA's royalty hike
The day the music survived
By Chris Williams → More by this author
Published Tuesday 1st May 2007 09:05 GMT
Find your perfect job - click here from thousands of tech vacancies

Last.fm, the popular custom radio and music network, will press on with expansion plans, despite the threat to internet radio from the record industry lobbyists in the US.

A battle is currently being fought Stateside over how much royalty should be paid for streaming radio. Until the tail end of last week, the future of online radio looked bleak in the US, when collection society SoundExchange, backed by the RIAA, defeated an appeal to the Copyright Control Board to overturn a tripling of the royalty.
Click here to find out more!

The appeal was brought by a coalition of webcasters who said the new regime would destroy an embryonic and as-yet unprofitable business, but it fell on deaf ears.

Speaking to The Register, Last.fm founder Martin Stiksel said the RIAA had succeeded in masking the fact the huge payday their new royalty scheme would grant would not be passed on to artists. "They've managed to lead the discussion, when they shouldn't have been allowed to," he said.

On Friday, a bill was introduced in Congress aimed at guaranteeing internet radio parity on royalty payments with satellite broadcasts by capping the rate payable to collection societies at 7.5 per cent of revenue. SoundExchange and the RIAA have argued that the bigger potential audience for internet radio means it should pay more.

History shows the RIAA as a powerful force in Washington, so uncertainty reigns over the bill's fate. Stiksel said the threat to his firm may have been overstated in some quarters.

Although the firm is based in London, about 25 per cent of Last.fm's audience accesses the site from the US. Referring to the firm's heritage of dealing direct with labels and artists, Stiksel said "there may be ways around" the fee hike. The station has bagged two of the four major labels - Warner and EMI - and Stiksel said Sony BMG and Universal were set to close shortly.

Sound recording performance royalty collection is more complex in the US than in the UK, where pretty much everything goes through PPL. Unfortunately, stuck between a rock and a hard place, PPL has repeatedly slipped on promises to organise a universal streaming royalty regime in the UK. When Last.fm launched in 2002 it was told to go and deal directly with labels, while the huge number of interests which compose PPL's hive mind began the still ongoing debate of what to charge for webcasting.

So as it turns out, this apparently tiresome trudge into the most arcane corners of the music industry may turn out to be a boon for Last.fm. Pandora, its biggest rival in custom radio, has only launched in the US so far, where it is bigger than its UK-based rival, but therefore more exposed to the threat from the Copyright Control Board's decision.

Pandora pays the record companies through the architects of the new system, SoundExchange, which is why Pandora founder Tim Westegren resorted to an impassioned email plea for listeners to petition politicians through the savenetradio.org campaign site, which features a countdown timer to "the day the music dies".

In an interview, Westegren said: "We don't have very deep roots in Washington. The best recourse for us is looking to rally listeners and try to get a new bill passed."

Cynical observers might suggest you know you've got problems when you're facing down the RIAA lobbyists armed with a petition. Ironically, until 1995 there was no performance royalty for sound recordings in the US.

There may be another, more hard-boiled reason why Last.fm isn't sweating the flap over royalties in the US. Speculation last week said it was being eyed as a $450m acquisition target by media conglomerate Viacom. Stiksel declined to comment on the rumours. �

Hoping to stake a claim in the popular social networking space, CBS has purchased music recommendation company Last.fm for $280 million.

Like rival Pandora, Last.fm allows users to enter the music acts they like and then suggests other musicians to users. But unlike other companies that rely on objective facts about bands, Last.fm bases its recommendations on the preferences of other members. So, when users provide Last.fm with the name of a favorite group, the company makes recommendations based on the preferences of other people who also like that group. Members also can create profiles and then receive personalized streams of music.

CBS's acquisition comes at a time of increased activity surrounding digital music. Consider, Amazon recently said it was going to start selling music downloads, while Apple today began offering tracks from EMI without digital rights management restrictions. Additionally, late last year Pandora agreed to power MSN's online radio service.

Even MySpace, purchased by News Corp for $580 million in 2005, first made a name for itself as a site for independent musicians.

Currently, Last.fm isn't known primarily for selling downloads, but that might change under CBS ownership. But even without a huge amount of sales revenue, Last.fm's audience alone seems likely to give CBS a big boost online.

I do not believe a single word. I can listen to any stupid US station anywhere in the world, so where is the difference? Greed? Arrogance? Ignorance?

well i have to say that pandora has been a long time favorite and i'm extremely choked that its been revoked, it definatly feels like a kick to the pants!

Could you explain to us who has pressured Pandora to stop broadcasting to servers outside of the U.S., and what laws or regulations are they citing?

Last.fm and finetune both broadcast to servers outside the U.S. as well as countless U.S.-based radio stations that steam their broadcast. Is there something particular with Pandora's situation?

People, keep posting to this thread any information on the legal and technical aspects of this issue as I am trying really hard to understand it. Needless to say, as another Canuck, I'm gutted by this. As somebody else pointed out, the current state of affairs seems to be set up in order to encourage piracy!

I know everything moves on, but every time our beloved interweb spits out a success (Napster, YouTube, Pandora, countless others), the hyenas move in and start tearing. Remember the "world wide web" and the dream of universality? It's gut-wrenching. I'm just so very tired of the suits and their rapacious greed.

This feels like a pillar of my life has been removed, I've become totally dependant on your service for my music needs. Heck I'd pay for it if I had to.

It would be great if there was a form or at least a page where I could get pertinent information about this issue, that includes who I can contact to try to change this because quite honestly I have no idea .

Totally sucks!

I guess Canadians have to listen to unpersonalized music via the internet or via local stations.

:'(

thats too bad... i just started using pandora and i already discovered a lot of music.

well i hope this whole shit will be fixed up soon.

Tim,

I cannot believe that you are disallowing Canadian listeners!! What laws (Canadian) are you breaking by letting your listeners enjoy Pandora here in our country?
I have always appreciated your service and what it represented, get some b#@*s and don't let these guys push you around.

Colin and Angela

p.s. Take a look at how The Pirate Bay overcame a similar situation, think outside the box---Pandora!!!

Aww, well I know its not your fault. I liked pandora a large part just for finding new bands based on the similar songs, it broadened my interests, and I even bought a few CDs based on finding them through pandora.

Patrick, Canada

To the people of Pandora... PLEASE... at the very least allow Canadian content from the Canadian Music Creators Coalition (talented and brilliant musicians such as Feist, Sam Roberts, Barenaked Ladies, and Sarah McLachlan to name a few) to be played for Canadian listeners while you are making a Canadian version of Pandora.

From the Canadian Music Creators Coalition:
http://www.musiccreators.ca/wp/

We are a growing coalition of Canadian music creators who share the common goal of having our voices heard about the laws and policies that affect our livelihoods. We are the people who actually create Canadian music. Without us, there would be no music for copyright laws to protect.

Until now, a group of multinational record labels has done most of the talking about what Canadian artists need out of copyright. Record companies and music publishers are not our enemies, but let's be clear: lobbyists for major labels are looking out for their shareholders, and seldom speak for Canadian artists. Legislative proposals that would facilitate lawsuits against our fans or increase the labels' control over the enjoyment of music are made not in our names, but on behalf of the labels' foreign parent companies.

178 Canadian musicians have already signed up to support our principles. If you're a musician and want to add yourself or your band to this list, contact us. Please include any website information that you'd like to accompany your listing.

The CMCC is united under three key principles:

Suing Our Fans is Destructive and Hypocritical
Artists do not want to sue music fans. The labels have been suing our fans against artists� will, and laws enabling these suits cannot be justified in artists� names.

Digital Locks are Risky and Counterproductive
Artists do not support using digital locks to increase the labels� control over the distribution, use and enjoyment of music or laws that prohibit circumvention of such technological measures. Consumers should be able to transfer the music they buy to other formats under a right of fair use, without having to pay twice.

Cultural Policy Should Support Actual Canadian Artists
The vast majority of new Canadian music is not promoted by major labels, which focus mostly on foreign artists. The government should use other policy tools to support actual Canadian artists and a thriving musical and cultural scene.

Can we not come up with somthing here? THis is awful.

aww man i was hooked
if there is anything us canucks can do let me know cuz me and my friend were hooked

Any other programs like Pandora out there that we Canadians can use?

Well, It is a shame that this has the potential of making a VS battle....the only outcome is nobody wins.

The people that wouldn't buy the tunes anyway would get them with any means.

The people that would love to hear and possibly buy now have no sound..............shitty for sure

This is bad thing man. I hope the big companies remove their heads from their asses before those asses implode on themselves ) cheers

just about 1-1/2 months without pandora.

i thought that i'd forget about it by now. have replaced it with something else.

but i can't .. there is nothing else.

i miss my station and i want it back.

sigh

musicovery.com for users outside of the U.S.

Pandora you were my first love, but we all have to move on....check out musicovery.com

Like others have said, I have bought cds cause of this site, and i am disappointed that we can no longer access the songs on this site, though i realize that it is beyond your control for the moment.

Pandora was awesome while it lasted...

Gees, make it come back...NOW!!!

Still holding out hope up here.

damn. get back here. we need you! i love using pandora!

So how many Pandora exiles here are stuck listening to Last.fm?

I found a website that Canadians might like while we wait for Pandora.com to allow us back in:

http://www.anywhere.fm/player/

I hope this helps!

Why can iTunes radio stream to my computer all day and Pandora can't?

Just wait, its going to get alot worse.By the time they get done the only thing you will be able to do is get cooking recipes.When that happens i will cancel isp and the isp's will go out of business..

too bad your site was so great and I had a lot of people listening

Too bad your not broadcasting out of sweeden, they have no copyright laws to get in the way. thats the only reason thepiratebay.com still exists to this day

I find this just mean and disgusting to Canadians. Pandora was an amazing program. I used it at School, Home and everywhere I could find a computer. Whatever law your told you to do this is simply disgusting. We Canadians have helped the Americans in plenty ways. And how do they treat us? Like dirt.

I hope in some future we will get the respect we deserve.

any news on canada, is it me or have you forgoten about your nighbours

I absolutely loved Pandora, and I'm pretty upset that I'm unable to use it now. I can't help but wondering if the CMCC (Canadian Music Creators Coalition) would do anything help us out? They would definately be able to generate the need publicity, there are some really big names in the member list. I know this isn't exactly what they are working for, but I think it has some relevance. I think that Pandora is a great way to encourage Canadian music, I have found several new Canadian artists whose albums I have bought because of Pandora. Tim perhaps a letter explaining our situation would convince the Coalition to start promoting internet radio in Canada.

That really sucks, you guys at Pandora are really on to something...and as for the music industry: f* them, if they think they can control the online global community ...for every head they cut off two more will grow...this is a beast you cant fight, so either get with it or f*-off.
Check out piratebay.net for all your music piracey.

We are the people and we control the net. Peace.

Demonoid I could understand! But, come on! I liked you!

Now I know how minorities feel. When did Canuck become a racial slur?

That's right, I just called you a racist!

(Sorry, I'm angst-y... I'll miss it.)

Its funny that there was Canadian Artists playing on pandora. I wonder if these songs are still playing on pandora since its blocked in Canada. Its classic, americans want to listen to canadian and international music, but they never let there stuff go out of the country. Take all give nothing, United-States to its best.
Please come back to us A.S.A.P. we likes your services here in Canada, i even paid to help your cause and then it got shutdown SAD.

The music industry is in a "trimming" stage. Too many current executives came into the industry with too many compensation expectations. Don't worry, this is a dying breed, and as the suckling piggies retire, they will be replaced with more reasonably compensated gen-X folk who get in with lower expecations. Then they'll start to work WITH the rest of us... I hope.

Hey music companies, Banning pandora from Canada was the straw that broke this camel's back. I used to buy 2-10 albums a month. when pandora got banned, i stopped buying all together. Please pass that along to all your artists and ask if its what they really wanted.

You are right Alex, that is so true. Now that it's harder for me to discover new stuff I don't buy as much CDs than I used to. :D

I bought at least 30 cd's via the Amazon.com link. I have bought 2 since having been blocked. Music companies are cutting their own throats. The sooner they go bust, the better.

M

I hope Pandora comes back to Canada soon. There are simply no other sites out there to replace it. I am on last.fm, but it's not the same. You have to pay for a customizable radio station. I had some hope when I discovered Slacker.com which is almost the same, but it turns out they have the same regulation problems as Pandora. I wish there was something we could do to get the govt. here to agree to letting us have Pandora back. There were tons of Canadians on Pandora, what a huge user loss! Internet radio isn't worth listening to unless it's personalized, so I guess I'll stick with Windows Media, iTunes, and last.FM... for now. Cross your fingers for this year!

AGGGHH - I need my Pandora. Canada just got duller.

Any new news?