Blog: Princeton Visit... recap

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February 19, 2007

Princeton Visit... recap

Always love the New Jersey Transit rides. California desperately needs this kind of public transportation. Thanks, Lou for picking me up at the train station. Much appreciated.

Another fun evening with Pandora listeners. Particularly pleased to have so many undergrads from the local university present. Thanks to all the student groups that helped put it together - Business Today, the Princeton Pre-Business Society and the Princeton E-Club.

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Quite a motivated bunch of students... particularly when I found out it was rush week so everyone had been pulling consecutive all-nighters... oh to be young...

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Quite a bit of discussion about lyrics, something I definitely consider a weak spot in the genome. Particularly in country and folk, definitely a sense that we need help. It's a tough one to tackle with music analysis because it's such a subjective thing. Hard to get 50 analysts to agree on a song's meaning.

Also more discussion of user-generated data, in particular the use of more perceptual/sensory terms, rather than musical ones to allow a new dimension of classifications (eg. hot or cold, smooth or choppy, etc). I remain skeptical of this data because I think it's so hard to pin down.

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Good long chat after the session. Some concerns about net neutrality - something we're of course watching closely. Particularly engaging youngster had some really interesting thoughts (father beaming with pride...). I always love when father&son show up, or any parent/child. Something particularly cool about a subject that can truly be shared across generations. I hope that happens more and more.

Also pleased to receive a good handful of local CDs.

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Back on the train for a late night ride to NYC... (thanks a lot for the ride, Brian)

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Posted by Tim Westergren at February 19, 2007 12:22 PM

Comments

There's something exhilarating about hearing first-hand the growth of something that I first heard about in the idea form. Thanks so much!

As for discussing lyrics, I think it's one of those Eskimo/snow vocabulary things. In genres in which lyrics are of equal or greater importance than melody or groove or performance...lyrics are what people listen to closely. Categories and values DO emerge. It might be valuable to spend some time in Nashville, or at least talk to those Nashville "Eskimos" who are writing, recording, marketing or studying what's written, who focus on lyric above music.

Country music is lyric-driven, within a narrow range of what topics are acceptable and what language can be used...with a lot of conventions that would make analysis easier. A greater percentage of country lyrics are quite concrete, which would get you a LOT more consensus among your analysts!! That's why country might be a good first stop in trying to assess lyrics. (It's an interesting genre, too, because it seems to span a far wider age range than the others. And the demographic is full of people craving something like Pandora because the Clear Channel stations are playing a very limited playlist within a narrow range, and move songs up at a glacial pace. Country music is a lot of different things to different people - Southern, rural, Americana, rootsy stuff, decades-old country artists - and those folks miss hearing what they love.)

As you expand this look at lyrics, you can use Green's Book of Songs, available in most libraries, listing songs by topic. http://www.greenbookofsongs.com/ You could rate lyrics as to where they are on an abstract/concrete scale. You could run the words through one of those fog index scales. Indicate point of view, eg 1st person, 3rd person.
You could rate the G-PG-X level of the language. Are verses short or long? Are sentences short or long? Where does the title/hook fall? Is it a "story" with a twist? Is it a story song? Is funny wordplay important?

A lot of ways to noodle with this.

As a former jazz player, I once had plenty of Eskimo-snow categories for how people soloed on my favorite records. As a country songwriter, but even more as a listener, the instrumental solo now serves primarily as something to heighten the impact of the lyrics and melody of the final verse or chorus. The solo used to be the main course on my dinner plate, now it's the parsley, and while I know lots of words for chicken dishes, parsley's either chopped or not.

But now I've got as much to say about lyrics as there are snowflakes on my lawn.

Thanks for coming to Princeton during the Freeze of '07! Great to meet you.

I'm afraid I have even more to say about lyrics, if you're interested, and I can point you to other resources, experts in different areas.

All the best,
Ruth


Posted by: Ruth Greenwood at February 19, 2007 02:41 PM

Hi there
Don't know where else to put this, and being outside the US, ahem, I'm not actually officially listening to Pandora, but I wonder if you had thought of being able to create radio stations not just from a song, or the artist, but from an album e.g. the Beatles' Revolver. Or is that trying to teach your grandmother to suck eggs?

Posted by: william lucas at February 19, 2007 03:45 PM

What I didn't get a chance to say at the Princeton meeting, but I think came across from more of the audience than not, was that the simplicity of Pandora is what makes it (in my view) a killer app.

My 17-year-old son and the kids I work with are all into limewire and bittorrents and all kinds of other stuff. And I hear plenty about their glories.

But with Pandora there's literally nothing to learn and nothing to wrestle with. And that's what makes it span the generations. Introducing more bells and whistles at the cost of that simpicity would only lessen the momentum of your word of mouth growth.

Posted by: Jenny Raybould at February 20, 2007 06:00 AM

Tim...You're welcome for the ride back to the train station!

And thank you once again for talking to me while you were in Princeton. The Technology and the Arts podcast featuring your interview was posted tonight if you want to take a listen to it. Your interview comes at around the 27-minute mark of Podcast #5 - 2/21/07.

- Brian

Posted by: Brian Kelley at February 21, 2007 07:57 PM

i want to join your group i am in Grande Prairie Alberta city Canada

Posted by: youfoulsou philemon at February 22, 2007 10:38 AM

LOVE THIS STATION. I HAVE HEARD SO MANY NEW ARTISTS. I WOULD HAVE NEVER FOUND THEM WITHOUT YOUR HELP. AS A PERFORMING SINGER SONGWRITER THIS HAS OPENED A WINDOW ON A CLEAR DAY FOR ME. THANKS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: TODD ANDERSON at March 14, 2007 07:12 AM

Hi

Writing to congratulate you guys. What an ingenius idea! Pandora is my new favorite music site. (already worn out itunes) Just to give you guys some background (primarly so you have an idea of who is buying into the concept) I'm a 30 year old female. Avid music lover (obviously) Mostly like the stuff that may not hit the top 100 chart. Music/writing is a personal passion. For work I'm in the medical field.

Have a full-time job .....but just throwing out there. If you guys ever decide to offer online jobs.....or any volunteer jobs in NYC or online I would love to get involved. Sounds like you guys work hard but also have a lot of fun and most importatantly I LOVE music. Email back ......would love to send a resume.

Regards,
Lauren

Posted by: Lauren Burns at April 27, 2007 03:09 PM

I have been listening to Pandora radio and love the Jazz. I cannot find any radio station with pure classical music. Please help.

Posted by: David Ansel at June 5, 2007 05:22 AM

I just wanted to say that I love puting in a artist and the Pandora knows how to pick my music. I can listen to it all day. I would love for it to come to visit Richard Stockton College. Located in Pamona NJ.

Posted by: Sharee at July 23, 2007 07:13 AM

Hello Tim.

I love Pandora. I share your site with others as well!

I love that I can find some great artists who play my genre of music on your site.

Tim, I would like to request that you add more musicians who play gospel jazz aka inspirational jazz music to the list of available songs.

I listen to this site for artist to add to Pandora. http://www.live365.com/stations/jazzspirations

Here are a few ear pleasing players:

Amazing grace ? wayman tisdale
Amazing grace -kirk whalum
Brighter day - russ freeman
Halleluia - Chris Botti
Simply Redeemed - Tres
Seek - Brian Clay
His Eye is On The Sparrow - Frank McComb
Forever Amen - Tony McClendon
Changing My Whole Life - Angie Winans
What the World Needs Now - Ben Tankard

Ron Brown - Praise Is What I Do [7:07] -

Restored Jamie Jones - Love U Show [4:29] - Jamie Jones

Sean Hardin - Sean Hardin - Bring You Out [6:39] - Been Good

Bubba Sparxx - Deliverance [4:40]

Nelson Rangell - I`ll Fly Away [5:38] - Always

Eric Essix - Precious Lord [3:32] - Abide With Me

Bob James & Kirk Whalum - The Prayer [8:32] - Joined at the Hip

Wayman Tisdale - Sunday's Best w/ Kirk Whalum and Jonthan BuUtler [6:31] - Way Up!

Lisa McClendon - Breathe [5:05] - Soul Music

Eric Essix - I Want Jesus To Walk With Me [4:07] - Abide With Me

CeCe Winans - Every Time [4:07] - WOW Gospel 1998 (Disc 1)

Paul Jackson Jr. - Tomorrow [5:14] - The Power of the String

Posted by: Karen Lewis at October 6, 2007 08:13 AM

Greetings in the name of my lord Jesus Christ I give credit when credit should be given Indeed the contemporay gospel collection has grown since last october which was when I first started listening.ALSO AS WITH ANY GOOD PRODUCT ADVERTISMENT BY MOUTH IS TOP OF THE CHAIN. I HAVE TOLD SEVERAL PEOPLE ABOUT PANDORA SO INDEED YOU ARE DOING A VERY VERY GOOD JOB, TIM KEEP UP THE Good Work.

Posted by: Darryl G Gilliam at February 16, 2008 10:24 AM

I recommend a visit to a great place for jazz, meeting various jazz artists and meeting the owner, Cecil Brooks III can be found in West Orange, NJ at "Cecils". On Tuesday nights you have Cecil's band joined by local talents and sometimes you will find a great jazz musician that just stopped by. Thursdays are Latin nights. The food is great also.

Posted by: Peggy Davis at August 16, 2008 03:57 PM

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