Cool Kevin, and now I know why I've always loved bands like Metallica and ACDC, power chords and the way they play their riffs, thanks for another great lesson and another piece of the puzzle for me. ssrb

This is very cool stuff! I've had Pandora for awhile but didn't know about these podcasts. Duh!

Drop-D is used by some metal musicians (notably Sepultura's Max Cavalera), but much metal uses standard intervals between the strings, albeit with the whole guitar tuned down, allowing standard chord fingerings to be used. Before 7 string guitars became easily available, tuning all 6 strings down by 1 whole tone was quite commonplace (example: Death), with some of the more extreme metal acts tuning all strings down by 2 or 2.5 whole tones (example: Carcass, Bolt Thrower).

Hey Kevin, I forgot a question. What is it called when a band starts a song once, then pauses, does this again, and the third time your expecting the pause they actually start the song? I notice this in several Metallica songs. It's like a false start but don't know if there is a musical term for it. I like it tho. Kinda throws you off balance and stuff. ssrb

Cowbutt: Yes indeed. You are correct. Thanks for the additional information.

Sunshine: Hmm. Good question. I've never heard a term attached to that particular false-start approach. Which Metallica songs feature that? A few of the songs on "Garage Inc." do that, right?

There's also the false-ending approach. The song ends, or seems to, and then after a pause the coda repeats once more, or the refrain reappears. A few examples of that would be Tin Machine's "Heaven's In Here," Bruce Springsteen's "Rosalita," and Count Basie's "April In Paris" ('one more time' and 'one more once').

Kevin, The only song I have kinda like a false start is Thru the Never by Metallica, I don't know names of others I've heard. I have heard false endings too. I also enjoy I guess you would call it layered beginnings where you start with one set of instruments, then add another set each time til you have the whole band playing and that usually starts the vocal too. And then there's the solos inside the songs where maybe only the drums play, then only the horns etc. And by the way I can learn way more from podcast questions then in a classroom of a couple hundred people where you can't really ask that many questions or get details from the teacers cuz they gotta teach everybody not just you. Thanks again.ssrb

Hi Kevin. I was listening to the Pandora Podcast on guitar riffs, which was great, as usual. But I was kinda surprised by how you described Jeff Anthony's playing in the metal section. While it's true that he's physically playing four times as fast, we usually call that beat 'double time', meaning the note values are halved, making the time already feel twice as fast, so in fact the tempo is only doubled. I'm assuming you do know this, and the description was due to simplicity out of necessity. Just wanted to know what you think.

In any case, keep up the good work! I look forward to the next episode!

Hi, Jiashen,

This was, in fact, shorthand. Though, if Jeff were starting that beat from a dead stop, it would be hard to say whether it would that beat would be considered 384 beats per minute or as 192 bpm but in double-time.

Double-time really only comes into play in the context of what beats surround it.

And since Jeff was playing at 96 bpm (single-time) to begin with, for him to switch into '192 bpm double-time' is really the equivalent of going into quadruple time. That is, there were four quarter-note snare hits in the same span of time where, only a measure earlier, he had only played one snare hit.

So, you could say that he went into quadruple-time, or that he switched to 192 bpm doubletime, or that he switched to 384 bpm. All are essentially synonymous.

I love the Pandora crew and I love the whole idea of this type of radio. I also really enjoy the podcasts. I am a composer myself and concentrate on guitar mostly with some classical stuff as well. It was enlightening to see the constituent parts of reggae and other genre's I didn't know a lot about.

I do however, have a small complaint. The scope of this complaint is in the guitar riff pod cast. When you were listing off great guitar riff writers you seemed to focus on older ones. Of course I agreed with most of them, but I feel you left some out. Metallica are true masters of riff construction.

Perhaps the most famous metal riff of all time is Enter Sandman, yet it wasn't mentioned. Do you guys not think newer guitarists are great riff makers or what? I know these newer guitarists get influences from older ones that you mentioned, but they still have unique qualities.

Hi, Arthur,

Will did play some Metallican (Metallica-esque? Metallicoid?) style riffs in the last few minutes of the show, and we link to Metallica's "Master Of Puppets" in the Examples section as an archetypal Chromatic Riff. I absolutely agree that Kirk Hammett is a riff expert.

Also true that "Enter Sandman" is a legendary, titanic riff, and one of the all-time greats. It just didn't happen to demonstrate any of the particular playing styles we were talking about.

In general, though, you are correct that I did stick primarily to older examples. It's not that I don't think newer guitarists are great riff makers -- some great riffs have emerged just in the past few years alone -- but I felt it would be more instructive to shine some light on the classics.

That said... what are some of your favorite recent riffs?

ahh I think that's where I may be confused, because I usually think of double time in relation to the measure, so if the snare's playing on the offbeat eighth notes (the "ands") then that's double time. For example in Metallica's Dyer's Eve, or actually a lot of heavy metal, you can tell from the repeated guitar riffs how long the measure is, and therefore tell the drums are in double time. And besides, 384 bpm is pretty insane. I don't think my metronome goes up to 384 haha.

Oh, yeah, I've never even SEEN a metronome that goes up to 384. That's like having a speedometer in your car that goes up to 350 mph.

And just to clarify, if a beat goes into double-time -- no matter how long the riff might be -- then a measure only lasts half as long, and hence you have two measures in the time where you previous had one measure.

It's based entirely on the number of beats (often most easily counted by the number of snare hits), and never based on the length of the guitar riff.

I really could name dozens of great riffs from newer ages of metal and rock. For starters, here are a few:

main riff in Disturb's Down With The Sickness
intro riff in Pantera's Cowboy's From Hell

Dream Theater has tons of single good riffs when they aren't playing "improvisational" For Example, As I Am is filled with guitar goodness.

I think the problem of identifying great riffs in these newer ages is that there are SOOO many great composers out there. I think the market is flooded more so than it was in rocks early ages.

There is, indeed, a flood of great new music. I listen to new music a LOT, by day and by night, I'm still nowhere near even skimming the surface adequately.

Kind of a mixed water metaphor, but you know what I mean.

Pantera rules!!

Great stuff as always..

Great riffs? I guess one way to judge these would be to think of what any beginning or aspiring rock guitarist starts with.. or for that matter go into a guitar store and look for a sign that says 'please don't play xxx' because they are tired of hearing newbies pick up a guitar and mangle the classic over and over.

For me two come to mind (although with a tiny bit more thought the list becomes HUGE) These two are riffs that open the songs, and all you need to do is hear about 5 notes (maybe less) and you instantly know the song (and will be humming it for the next hour)

Deep Purple: Smoke On The Water
Eagles: Hotel California

hi to all just want note that this is great information for the ones who want too know and the ones who want too know more way too go pandora also if any musician would like too JAM for FREE visted ninjam.com download there free program and get riffing and if you play drums plug in a mike.. lol peaceout......

Going back to the false intro bit, The best example in a rock setting is Under The Bridge by the Chilli's, it sets up the wrong key, the wrong tempo and the wrong tonality, compared to the rest of the song, the result of which, makes the real intro even more striking.

Just my thoughts, some one else may have seen a better one.

"Cannonball" by the Breeders does something like that. The bass begins the riff haltingly a few times, a step below the primary key of the song. It's a pretty ingenious way to build some expectation and lift into the opening seconds of a song.

loved it.... nice ending with views on some riffs of metal like slayer. I was a little dissappointed without something like iron maiden's riffs or megadeth or maybe even iced earth.I did think you focused on angus or page (altough they are great guitarists and showed what you were trying to illustrate). I just think you could have choosen some others. but they were some classic examples. nonetheless nice addition to the podcasts. keep it up!

Hi, Donald,

Thanks for checking it out, man -- and yeah, Iron Maiden and Megadeth and Iced Earth all feature some very tasty riffing. Only so many spaces we could fill with examples, alas. But hopefully the sequel, "Guitar Shredding," will give Will and me the chance to touch upon some of the other greats.

Is there any way to keep the music playing when you are not at the computer to check the songs ?? it shuts off about every twenty min. if you are away from the computer. Thanks Larry

I'd love to send you a little compilation of music that is very significant to me personally this year.
How best to do that? I currently use iTunes for all my music management.
Are there some other tools I can use to make this easy?

Hi, Larry,

It is set to make sure you are listening, true -- there isn't at current time a way to just let it keep streaming without you being near your computer. Since we're paying for every song you hear, both to the songwriters and to the record labels, it's to ensure that you aren't doing the equivalent of "leaving the tap on with the water running."

ahh I think that's where I may be confused, because I usually think of double time in relation to the measure, so if the snare's playing on the offbeat eighth notes (the "ands") then that's double time. For example in Metallica's Dyer's Eve, or actually a lot of heavy metal, you can tell from the repeated guitar riffs how long the measure is, and therefore tell the drums are in double time. And besides, 384 bpm is pretty insane. I don't think my metronome goes up to 384 haha.

THANK YOU

I remember the day I first discovered 'the Riff.' It was only some time into playing guitar, and someone taught my 'Come as you are' by Nirvana. In typical Nirvana style, it was dead simple but very effective.
From there, my songwriting was riff for everything! Great days! I'm sure I came up with some really great riffs in those days!
The Edge is still one of my favourite guitarists : his riffs aren't the usual power chordy stuff, but more jangly or stadium rock like (with his effects.) However, no one can deny that his riffs have certainly been one of the main contributors towards U2's huge success. There's no one who doesn't recognize the 'Where the Streets Have No Name” riff...